Puppy See, Puppy Do-Do

On March 31st, nominations for both the 2016 Hugo Awards and the 1941 Retro Hugo Awards will close.

Sad Puppies IV attempted to turn their slate into a “recommendation” list this year by opening up suggestions on a dedicated page (those participating made their suggestions in the comments) and then offering to whittle the list down to ten or so finalist recommendations, that puppies were then encouraged to consider for their ballots.

Kate Paulk recently closed the comments (at the beginning of March) so that they could be compiled and a final list composed.

It’s a little late in the game, especially considering that nominators are kinda expected to read and be familiar with works they’re going to recommend (but that isn’t necessarily an impediment for organized voting), so we’ve decided to help them out a bit and give them a hand up.

We started with one of the most visible categories – Best Novel. The following list contains all of the individual works mentioned in the comments. We did not verify eligibility (although most, if not all of the works seems to meet that criteria). When judging whether or not someone recommended something, we took “Plus 1” and “Me Too” to count for a “vote”. If someone talked about a work but didn’t expressly indicate that it was something they were going to nominate, we didn’t count it.

If a “top ten” is going to be compiled, it’s pretty obvious from the counts below what we should see on the Sad Puppy IV Slate. It will be interesting to see how the final list compares.

Of particular note is Honor At Stake by Declan Finn. He wasn’t shy at all about recommending his own work and apparently working the room works! Honor came in at #2. Funny how the same thing that was done to the Hugos last year popped up in SPIV, huh?

There were some 356 comments over all. Patterns are sometimes obvious: whenever someone mentioned a previously unmentioned work, it was usually followed by a handful of “me too” comments.

Maybe there’s a reason this compiling has waited so long. Maybe (off-chance), Kate decided that if it came in too late for the majority of works to be read, the claim could be made that SPIV didn’t really influence anything. Maybe.

The process was relatively straight-forward: individual works were added to a list and then each individual mention of a work that met the above criteria was counted as a vote.

There was a lot of discussion of nominating series; these were included.

I don’t understand the need to compile a top ten: we’ve already got the “recommended reads” part done.

Nevertheless, here it is. It will be interesting to what, if anything makes it to the final ballot.

1	Somewither	Wright	23
2	Honor At Stake	Finn	22
3	Aeronaut’s Windlass, the	Butcher	19
4	Uprooted	Novik	19
5	Long Time Until Now, A	Williamson	16
6	Seveneves	Stephenson	15
7	Nethereal	Neimeier	13
8	Son of the Black Sword, the	Correia	11
9	Fifth Season, the	Jemsin	8
10	Strands of Sorrow	Ringo	8
11	Ancillary Mercy	Leckie	7
12	Just City, the	Walton	7
13	Desert and the Blade, the	Stirling	6
14	Saturn Run	Sandford/Ctein	6
15	Aurora	Robinson	5
16	Devil’s Only Friend, the	Wells	5
17	Golden Son	Brown	5
18	Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality	Yudlowsky	5
19	Raising Caine	Gannon	5
20	Dark Tide Rising Series	Ringo	4
21	Discworld Series	Pratchett	4
22	Firefight	Sanderson	4
23	Hell’s Foundation Quiver	Weber	4
24	Net of Dawn and Bones, A	Chancy	4
25	Ronin Games	Harmon	4
26	Sorcerer to the Crown	Cho	4
27	1636: The Cardinal Virtues	Flint/Hunt	3
28	Black Wolves	Elliott	3
29	Blackbird	Boykin	3
30	Dark Forest, the	Liu	3
31	Fool’s Quest	Hobb	3
32	Nemesis Games	Corey	3
33	Shepherd’s Crown, the	Pratchett	3
34	Torchship	Gallagher	3
35	Ancillary Sword	Leckie	2
36	Angels of Attack	Kloos	2
37	Anniversary Day Saga	Rusch	2
38	Archangel	Reed	2
39	Autumn Republic, the	McClellan	2
40	Black Fleet Trilogy	Dalzelle	2
41	Bones and All	De Angelis	2
42	Call To Arms, A	Zahn/Pope/Weber	2
43	Children of Time	Tchaikovsky	2
44	Collisions of the Damned	Young	2
45	Darker Shade of Magic, A	Schwab	2
46	Distopia	Kroese	2
47	Dragon Thief	Swann	2
48	Futuristic Violence and Fancy Suits	Wong	2
49	Foxglove Summer	Aaronovitch	2
50	Her Brother’s Keeper	Kupari	2
51	House of Shattered Wings, the	de Bodard	2
52	Library at Mount Char, the	Hawkins	2
53	Mechanical, the	Tregellis	2
54	Traitor Baru Cormorant, the	Dickinson	2
55	Vermillion	Tanzer	2
56	Werewolf Cop	Klavan	2
57	A Succession of Bad Days	Saunders	1
58	Alex Crow, the	Smith	1
59	Alice	Henry	1
60	Architect of Aeons	Wright	1
61	Armada	Kline	1
62	Ashes Born	Lowell	1
63	Awesome, the	Darrows	1
64	Book of Lost Doors, the	Burnett	1
65	Borrowed Man, A	Wolfe	1
66	Buried Giant, the	Ishiguro	1
67	Byrony and Roses	Kingfisher	1
68	Castaway Planet	Spoor/Flint	1
69	Cat at Bay, A	Boykin	1
70	Chaplewood	Priest	1
71	Cinder Spires, the	Butcher	1
72	Clockwork Lives	Anderson	1
73	Culmanic Parts	Sutcliffe	1
74	Cunning Blood	Duntemann	1
75	Dark Intelligence	Asher	1
76	Dark Orbit	Gilman	1
77	Dinosaur Lords	Milan	1
78	Dread Wyrm, the	Cameron	1
79	Echopes of Apollo	Thompson	1
80	Edge of Dark	Cooper	1
81	Flex	Steinmetz	1
82	Gatefather	Card	1
83	Gentleman Joe and the Red Queen	Bujold	1
84	Grace of Kings	Liu	1
85	Greek Key	Spangler	1
86	Half a War	Abercrombie	1
87	Hidden Masters of Marandur and the Assassins of Altis	Campbell	1
88	Illuminae	Kaufman	1
89	Invisiblew Library, the	Cogman	1
90	Karen Memory	Bear	1
91	Knight’s Shadow	de Castelle	1
92	Less Than Hero	Browne	1
93	Liar’s Key, the	Lawrence	1
94	Last Song Before Night	Myer1	1
95	Life and Death	Meyer	1
96	Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet	Chambers	1
97	Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Leviathan	Campbell	1
98	Mind Over All	Fabian	1
99	Morte	Repino	1
100	Oncoming Storm, the	Nuttall	1
101	One Year After	Forstchen	1
102	Oracle	West	1
103	Originator	Shepherd	1
104	Pact	Wildbow	1
105	Philosopher Kings, the	Walton	1
106	Predator One	Mayberry	1
107	Providence of Fire, the	Staveley	1
108	Radiance	Valente	1
109	Radiomen	Lerman	1
110	Retrieval Artist series	Rusch	1
111	Rising, the	Tregillis	1
112	Root of Unity	Huang	1
113	Saint Odd	Koontz	1
114	Sceptre of Morgulan, the	Ryan	1
115	Shadows of Self	Sanderson	1
116	Shrivers: The Substrate War 3	Kinnison	1
117	Signal to Noise	Moreno-Garcia	1
118	Skull of Oghren	Vainio	1
119	Skull Throne, the	Brett	1
120	Sousmission	Houlledeq	1
121	Straits of Hell	Anderson	1
122	Sword of Arelion	Green	1
123	Twice and Future Caeser: A Novel of the USS Merrimack	Meluch	1
124	Vorrh, the	Catling	1
125	War Dogs	Bear	1
126	Watchmaker of Filigree Street, the	Pulley	1
127	Water Knife, the	Bacigalupi	1
128	Welcome to Night Vale	Cranor/Fink	1
129	Whispering Swarm, the	Moorcock	1
130	Wolf by Wolf	Graudin	1
131	Yaqteenya, the Old World	Bahjatt	1
132	Zero World	Hough	1

TITLE	AUTHOR(S)	NOMINATIONS
1636: The Cardinal Virtues	Flint/Hunt	3
A Succession of Bad Days	Saunders	1
Aeronaut’s Windlass, the	Butcher	19
Alex Crow, the	Smith	1
Alice	Henry	1
Ancillary Mercy	Leckie	7
Ancillary Sword	Leckie	2
Angels of Attack	Kloos	2
Anniversary Day Saga	Rusch	2
Archangel	Reed	2
Architect of Aeons	Wright	1
Armada	Kline	1
Ashes Born	Lowell	1
Aurora	Robinson	5
Autumn Republic, the	McClellan	2
Awesome, the	Darrows	1
Black Fleet Trilogy	Dalzelle	2
Black Wolves	Elliott	3
Blackbird	Boykin	3
Bones and All	De Angelis	2
Book of Lost Doors, the	Burnett	1
Borrowed Man, A	Wolfe	1
Buried Giant, the	Ishiguro	1
Byrony and Roses	Kingfisher	1
Call To Arms, A	Zahn/Pope/Weber	2
Castaway Planet	Spoor/Flint	1
Cat at Bay, A	Boykin	1
Chaplewood	Priest	1
Children of Time	Tchaikovsky	2
Cinder Spires, the	Butcher	1
Clockwork Lives	Anderson	1
Collisions of the Damned	Young	2
Culmanic Parts	Sutcliffe	1
Cunning Blood	Duntemann	1
Dark Forest, the	Liu	3
Dark Intelligence	Asher	1
Dark Orbit	Gilman	1
Dark Tide Rising Series	Ringo	4
Darker Shade of Magic, A	Schwab	2
Desert and the Blade, the	Stirling	6
Devil’s Only Friend, the	Wells	5
Dinosaur Lords	Milan	1
Discworld Series	Pratchett	4
Distopia	Kroese	2
Dragon Thief	Swann	2
Dread Wyrm, the	Cameron	1
Echopes of Apollo	Thompson	1
Edge of Dark	Cooper	1
Fifth Season, the	Jemsin	8
Firefight	Sanderson	4
Flex	Steinmetz	1
Fool’s Quest	Hobb	3
Foxglove Summer	Aaronovitch	2
Futuristic Violence and Fancy Suits	Wong	2
Gatefather	Card	1
Gentleman Joe and the Red Queen	Bujold	1
Golden Son	Brown	5
Grace of Kings	Liu	1
Greek Key	Spangler	1
Half a War	Abercrombie	1
Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality	Yudlowsky	5
Hell’s Foundation Quiver	Weber	4
Her Brother’s Keeper	Kupari	2
Hidden Masters of Marandur and the Assassins of Altis	Campbell	1
Honor At Stake	Finn	22
House of Shattered Wings, the	de Bodard	2
Illuminae	Kaufman	1
Invisiblew Library, the	Cogman	1
Just City, the	Walton	7
Karen Memory	Bear	1
Knight’s Shadow	de Castelle	1
Last Song Before Night	Myer1	1
Less Than Hero	Browne	1
Liar’s Key, the	Lawrence	1
Library at Mount Char, the	Hawkins	2
Life and Death	Meyer	1
Long Time Until Now, A	Williamson	16
Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet	Chambers	1
Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Leviathan	Campbell	1
Mechanical, the	Tregellis	2
Mind Over All	Fabian	1
Morte	Repino	1
Nemesis Games	Corey	3
Net of Dawn and Bones, A	Chancy	4
Nethereal	Neimeier	13
Oncoming Storm, the	Nuttall	1
One Year After	Forstchen	1
Oracle	West	1
Originator	Shepherd	1
Pact	Wildbow	1
Philosopher Kings, the	Walton	1
Predator One	Mayberry	1
Providence of Fire, the	Staveley	1
Radiance	Valente	1
Radiomen	Lerman	1
Raising Caine	Gannon	5
Retrieval Artist series	Rusch	1
Rising, the	Tregillis	1
Ronin Games	Harmon	4
Root of Unity	Huang	1
Saint Odd	Koontz	1
Saturn Run	Sandford/Ctein	6
Sceptre of Morgulan, the	Ryan	1
Seveneves	Stephenson	15
Shadows of Self	Sanderson	1
Shepherd’s Crown, the	Pratchett	3
Shrivers: The Substrate War 3	Kinnison	1
Signal to Noise	Moreno-Garcia	1
Skull of Oghren	Vainio	1
Skull Throne, the	Brett	1
Somewither	Wright	23
Son of the Black Sword, the	Correia	11
Sorcerer to the Crown	Cho	4
Sousmission	Houlledeq	1
Straits of Hell	Anderson	1
Strands of Sorrow	Ringo	8
Sword of Arelion	Green	1
Torchship	Gallagher	3
Traitor Baru Cormorant, the	Dickinson	2
Twice and Future Caeser: A Novel of the USS Merrimack	Meluch	1
Uprooted	Novik	19
Vermillion	Tanzer	2
Vorrh, the	Catling	1
War Dogs	Bear	1
Watchmaker of Filigree Street, the	Pulley	1
Water Knife, the	Bacigalupi	1
Welcome to Night Vale	Cranor/Fink	1
Werewolf Cop	Klavan	2
Whispering Swarm, the	Moorcock	1
Wolf by Wolf	Graudin	1
Yaqteenya, the Old World	Bahjatt	1
Zero World	Hough	1

ETA (3/9/2016): Unranked, “recommendation list-like” version. (Alphabetical by title)

TITLE	AUTHOR(S)	NOMINATIONS
1636: The Cardinal Virtues	Flint/Hunt	3
Aeronaut’s Windlass, the	Butcher	19
Alex Crow, the	Smith	1
Alice	Henry	1
Ancillary Mercy	Leckie	7
Ancillary Sword	Leckie	2
Angels of Attack	Kloos	2
Anniversary Day Saga	Rusch	2
Archangel	Reed	2
Architect of Aeons	Wright	1
Armada	Kline	1
Ashes Born	Lowell	1
Aurora	Robinson	5
Autumn Republic, the	McClellan	2
Awesome, the	Darrows	1
Black Fleet Trilogy	Dalzelle	2
Black Wolves	Elliott	3
Blackbird	Boykin	3
Bones and All	De Angelis	2
Book of Lost Doors, the	Burnett	1
Borrowed Man, A	Wolfe	1
Buried Giant, the	Ishiguro	1
Byrony and Roses	Kingfisher	1
Call To Arms, A	Zahn/Pope/Weber	2
Castaway Planet	Spoor/Flint	1
Cat at Bay, A	Boykin	1
Chaplewood	Priest	1
Children of Time	Tchaikovsky	2
Cinder Spires, the	Butcher	1
Clockwork Lives	Anderson	1
Collisions of the Damned	Young	2
Culmanic Parts	Sutcliffe	1
Cunning Blood	Duntemann	1
Dark Forest, the	Liu	3
Dark Intelligence	Asher	1
Dark Orbit	Gilman	1
Dark Tide Rising Series	Ringo	4
Darker Shade of Magic, A	Schwab	2
Desert and the Blade, the	Stirling	6
Devil’s Only Friend, the	Wells	5
Dinosaur Lords	Milan	1
Discworld Series	Pratchett	4
Distopia	Kroese	2
Dragon Thief	Swann	2
Dread Wyrm, the	Cameron	1
Echopes of Apollo	Thompson	1
Edge of Dark	Cooper	1
Fifth Season, the	Jemsin	8
Firefight	Sanderson	4
Flex	Steinmetz	1
Fool’s Quest	Hobb	3
Foxglove Summer	Aaronovitch	2
Futuristic Violence and Fancy Suits	Wong	2
Gatefather	Card	1
Gentleman Joe and the Red Queen	Bujold	1
Golden Son	Brown	5
Grace of Kings	Liu	1
Greek Key	Spangler	1
Half a War	Abercrombie	1
Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality	Yudlowsky	5
Hell’s Foundation Quiver	Weber	4
Her Brother’s Keeper	Kupari	2
Hidden Masters of Marandur and the Assassins of Altis	Campbell	1
Honor At Stake	Finn	22
House of Shattered Wings, the	de Bodard	2
Illuminae	Kaufman	1
Invisiblew Library, the	Cogman	1
Just City, the	Walton	7
Karen Memory	Bear	1
Knight’s Shadow	de Castelle	1
Last Song Before Night	Myer1	1
Less Than Hero	Browne	1
Liar’s Key, the	Lawrence	1
Library at Mount Char, the	Hawkins	2
Life and Death	Meyer	1
Long Time Until Now, A	Williamson	16
Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet	Chambers	1
Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Leviathan	Campbell	1
Mechanical, the	Tregellis	2
Mind Over All	Fabian	1
Morte	Repino	1
Nemesis Games	Corey	3
Net of Dawn and Bones, A	Chancy	4
Nethereal	Neimeier	13
Oncoming Storm, the	Nuttall	1
One Year After	Forstchen	1
Oracle	West	1
Originator	Shepherd	1
Pact	Wildbow	1
Philosopher Kings, the	Walton	1
Predator One	Mayberry	1
Providence of Fire, the	Staveley	1
Radiance	Valente	1
Radiomen	Lerman	1
Raising Caine	Gannon	5
Retrieval Artist series	Rusch	1
Rising, the	Tregillis	1
Ronin Games	Harmon	4
Root of Unity	Huang	1
Saint Odd	Koontz	1
Saturn Run	Sandford/Ctein	6
Sceptre of Morgulan, the	Ryan	1
Seveneves	Stephenson	15
Shadows of Self	Sanderson	1
Shepherd’s Crown, the	Pratchett	3
Shrivers: The Substrate War 3	Kinnison	1
Signal to Noise	Moreno-Garcia	1
Skull of Oghren	Vainio	1
Skull Throne, the	Brett	1
Somewither	Wright	23
Son of the Black Sword, the	Correia	11
Sorcerer to the Crown	Cho	4
Sousmission	Houlledeq	1
Straits of Hell	Anderson	1
Strands of Sorrow	Ringo	8
Succession of Bad Days, A	Saunders	1
Sword of Arelion	Green	1
Torchship	Gallagher	3
Traitor Baru Cormorant, the	Dickinson	2
Twice and Future Caeser: A Novel of the USS Merrimack	Meluch	1
Uprooted	Novik	19
Vermillion	Tanzer	2
Vorrh, the	Catling	1
War Dogs	Bear	1
Watchmaker of Filigree Street, the	Pulley	1
Water Knife, the	Bacigalupi	1
Welcome to Night Vale	Cranor/Fink	1
Werewolf Cop	Klavan	2
Whispering Swarm, the	Moorcock	1
Wolf by Wolf	Graudin	1
Yaqteenya, the Old World	Bahjatt	1
Zero World	Hough	1

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14 Comments

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stevedavidson says:
March 9, 2016 at 5:21 am
Tasha: at your request I’m adding that version of the table to the post.
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1. Tasha Turner says:
  March 9, 2016 at 3:42 pm
  Thanks. Maybe it will help some people see the difference. I think the animosity would go way down on a list looking like the 2nd.
  From your post 7 levels of recommending:
  1. First list is R7
  2. Second list is R4
  That’s a pretty big jump. Would you agree with my reclassification? To make it really help the list should be compiled as suggestions are made and links to the post with the list should be shared regularly 1-3 months before nominations end.
  Log in to Reply
stevedavidson says:
March 7, 2016 at 4:50 pm
Tasha: I pretty well explained the methodology – but don’t mind people pointing out things and/or providing additional information.
Of course, none of this would be necessary or even interesting to do if the slate had been a recommendation list: months ago people could have started reading recommendations that interested them.
What you say is true but this wasn’t a win/lose situation: I took a few minutes to demonstrate that the Fannish thing to do is pitch in and help out; that information such as this should be freely shared without attached bias; to get an indication of where things might be going after March; that impatient individuals (or those who actually like to read the things they might nominate) could do for themselves without having to organize a political party to do so; to illustrate some points; to satisfy curiosity; to…….
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1. Tasha Turner says:
  March 9, 2016 at 1:14 am
  I would have left the ranking off, put the list in alphabetical order, still included the column with how many recommend. That would show how you could take what they were creating and turn it into a recommendation list as many clubs and organizations do this.
  People participating on the SP4 website have been able to read recommended books. We don’t know how many lurkers have been on the site reading but not commenting.
  SP4 Website stats of interest from google analytics and WordPress separately:
  1. Number of unique visitors & # return visitors
  2. Number of pages visited by typical visitor
  3. Length of time for typical page visited
  4. Top 10 pages visited & their stats (# unique visitors, average length of visit, # return visitors)
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Tasha Turner says:
March 7, 2016 at 4:40 pm
No “good dead” goes unpunished. I see your being critiqued for compiling the entries exactly as they were made instead of cleaning them up. As well as for the items on the list. The comments on File 770 were to be expected. Some days you can’t win.
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Rat Seal says:
March 7, 2016 at 1:08 pm
Ringo’s Strands of Sorrow and Ringo’s Dark Tide series is really the same entry since he only released on eligible work in that universe this year – which is SoS – yielding 12 votes total.
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1. Dex says:
  March 7, 2016 at 5:15 pm
  I’m also not real sure that John would accept a nomination.
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  1. Rat Seal says:
    March 8, 2016 at 2:29 pm
    He has been nominated before. However, since he belongs to a Hugo-outgroup, he would never win a Hugo. He will, however, continue to merrily sell scads of books.
    Quick nod to the compiler, Steve D., for the early list of named recommendations and their votes.
    Log in to Reply
    1. Dex says:
      March 8, 2016 at 3:25 pm
      Basically, Kate’s going to have the “official” one compiled in the next day or so.
      Re: scads of books, I picked up the anthology he edited in EARC form, Friday.
      John has in recent years said a few rude things about WorldCon. Likewise, MadMike voted Noah Ward on every nomination last summer, including his own.
      Log in to Reply
      1. stevedavidson says:
        March 8, 2016 at 4:22 pm
        Dex, saying rude things about Worldcon will not and can not affect how nominations for his works are handled.
        RE the above “Hugo ‘outgroup'”; believe what you want, but there ain’t no such thing. There are works that a majority settle on, eventually, and there are works that they don’t.
        Continuing to view this process as a game of high school clicks does no one any good service.
      2. Dex says:
        March 8, 2016 at 4:55 pm
        It’s a hint as to how John might react to being nominated. Larry Correia and Brad Torgerson, for example, have said that they will never accept another Hugo nomination.
        I asked MadMike about nominating “A Long Time Until Now”. He replied, “My reaction will depend on Worldcon’s, if it happens.” He did vote Noah on his entire ballot last year.
    2. stevedavidson says:
      March 8, 2016 at 4:20 pm
      Rat Seal,
      sales do not impact nor should they have any bearing whatsoever on the awards, nomination considerations or even discussion on the subject.
      Log in to Reply
Dex says:
March 7, 2016 at 12:23 pm
“Ancillary Sword” isn’t eligible. It was nominated, and didn’t go anywhere, last year, mainly because it stunk. As it turns out, it was a case of Two Towers Syndrome — middle volume of a trilogy frequently has a lot of side-story and little action.
“Ancillary Mercy” is eligible. While Leckie did manage to pull out a credible ending for the trilogy, there’s a bunch of stuff that I’d put higher on the list.
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